remove edge grit rush system and add more passive skill like pd2

02 Oct, '23
SlyGuy27 Merged

I am really hating this Grit/Edge/Rush stuff. Temporary buffs are garbage, I’d much rather have a skill that just for example makes you pick locks faster (not only if I’m doing a specific thing at a specific time) like PayDay2.

100+

17 Jan, '24
Mint Merged

PD3 skills are too involved. With the edge/grit/rush system you have to constantly pay attention to the bars and manage your build very actively. Most skills have rather arbitrary conditions to fullfill in order to work and you have to constantly keep in mind what exactly your build does and how to activate it. It turns into a chore, and players often end up playing without many of their skills because they forget to use them.
In comparison the skills system in PD2 allows for a much more relaxed build which just works in the background as you play. And even the skills which aren't passive have much more natural triggers to compliment gameplay instead of interrupting by making the player go out of their way to activate them.
For example, to reach the full potential of a shotgun build in PD2 you have to kill an enemy in the last 20 seconds. In PD3 doing that requires killing 3 enemies quick at very short distance to activate 2 bars, then keep forcing partial reloads before they wear of

61

19 Jan, '24
Dedicate Merged

The main skill that keeps you alive in payday 2 is armor gating and bullseye anarchist is the best example of this obviously barring stoic. Sounds like a build issue or a skill issue however asking for easier ways to build solely around one buff type or easier ways to activate and refresh them would probably be a more reasonable route than rebalancing the entire skill system. So the easiest solution for this would be to create skills that don't rely on edge grit or rush or rather instead benefit from the lack of which would give consuming skills greater value.

9

21 Jan, '24
flchans Merged

All this system does is makes you do arbitrary things you don't need (ex. swapping weapons) for the sake of getting a buff. I don't really like it, and for me skills like Speed Hack which require both Rush AND a jammer active are basically a non-starter.

100+

22 Jan, '24
Mint Merged

The point was more that the current skills often have too many conditions to fullfill in order to work, and don't compliment the natural flow of gameplay, but instead make the player go out of their way to activate things by arbitrary means. Like forcing reloads when they're not necessary, throwing out your bag only to pick it back up instantly, or the whole slide/vault buff conversion situation in Escapist. You combine that with some skills requiring the edge/grit/rush buffs active to work, some skills consuming the buffs when they work, and it turns into a minigame of watching the buff gauges and doing arbitrary stuff to keep/regain them, instead of focusing on the actual heists.
The PD2 comparison is there, because the skills in PD2 don't require you to go out of the standard playstyle of what they were designed for. Swan song activates when HP reaches 0. Joker bonuses activate by having a joker. Graze activates by hitting headshots. There isn't a list of terms and conditions.

59

13 Mar, '24
h3m Merged

Why have skills that require you to do things such as "Switching your weapon to activate EDGE" or "Aiming for 1.5 seconds to activate EDGE". These are chores. You generall want mechanics to compliment your gameplay, by adding to it - and not take away from it. As someone who has been playing since the launch of Payday: The Heist - This "Edge, Grit, Rush" system makes skills unnecessarily complicated.

64

14 Mar, '24
Snaex Admin

"Edge, Grit, Rush is at fault for unnecessary "chore" skills" (suggested by <Hidden> on 2024-03-13), including upvotes (1) and comments (0), was merged into this suggestion.

4

28 Apr, '24
Disgruntled

The whole concept is stupid. It should be put directly to a perk tree. To even maintain ammo, I have to kill two guys within 4 seconds within 5 meters, then constantly reload a loaded gun until the level ends. What were you people thinking?

38

01 May, '24
rmills963

I don't think it's necesarrily that they're a chore, but the fact that only a select few triggers can even refresh these buffs is what makes it annoying. I could have swapped my weapon literally 2 seconds ago with gunslinger but my edge didn't run out so now I have to swap off and back. It creates a weird pacing issue when you can't be caught out of position when the buffs fall off so you sit behind cover and kill 3-5 seconds so that they can be refreshed.

5

24 May, '24
h3m Merged

The main priority of all skills should be to be FUN.

Why do I need to switch my weapon to activate edge?
Why do I need to purposefully shoot a shot just so I can reload to refresh edge and grit?
Why do I need to switch my weapon to refresh edge?
How does any of this make the gameplay more FUN? IT DOESN'T

It adds nothing to the gameplay loop. It just makes it more annoying.
It unnecessarily obfuscates and complicates the way skills work and even restricts the way in which skills can be designed.

27

24 May, '24
h3m

THE MAIN PRIORITY OF SKILLS SHOULD BE TO MAKE THE GAMEPLAY MORE FUN!!!

Why do I need to switch my weapon to activate edge?
Why do I need to purposefully miss a shot (when no enemies are nearby) just so I can reload to refresh edge and grit?
Why do I need to switch my weapon to refresh edge?
Why do I need to stand still while aiming for 2 seconds to activate Edge?

HOW DOES ANY OF THIS MAKE THE GAMEPLAY MORE FUN?

18

24 May, '24
h3m Merged

These are the ones I can think of at the top of my head:

Needing to switch weapons to activate edge
-> Adds nothing to the gameplay

Needing to purposefully miss a shot (when no enemy is nearby) to refresh edge + grit.
--> Adds nothing to the gameplay

Needing to switch your weapon to activate edge
--> Adds nothing to the gameplay

Needing to stand still for 2 seconds while aiming to activate edge
--> Adds nothing to the gameplay

13

24 May, '24
Snaex Admin

"[Feedback] Remove EDGE/GRIT/RUSH" (suggested by <Hidden> on 2024-05-24), including upvotes (1) and comments (0), was merged into this suggestion.

2

24 May, '24
Snaex Admin

"[Feedback] Remove all buff activation mechanics that don't add anything to the gameplay" (suggested by <Hidden> on 2024-05-24), including upvotes (1) and comments (0), was merged into this suggestion.

3

28 Jun, '24
JimmyChanga Merged

Payday 1 and Payday 2 did not need this crap. Why did you have to ruin the flow of combat in Payday 3 with this weird system that forces you to do arbitrary things?

17

28 Jun, '24
Borgir Merged

plsss get rid off grit edge rush stuff this is useless

to refresh grit i need to reload.. but when my magazine is full because i use a double barrel and a skill that directly puts ammo into my magazine, that means i have to shoot air just so i can reload to refresh the buff..

seriously? i seriously need to shoot air just so i can refresh the grit buff? how does this make the game more fun??????

12

28 Jun, '24
Beno

If they don't remove it for x or y reason, I feel the best way to somewhat address this (for now) would likely be to make the duration of the buffs last longer depending on what you're doing
a.e, doing X makes Y last longer (killing enemies for EDGE, tanking damage for GRIT, and running through danger for RUSH)

Give it that feel of being a boost that naturally cooperates with the system itself, it may not make *refreshing* them feel any better on the gameplay spectrum, but at least keeping them for longer means less times where you're thinking "damn I gotta do this stupid thing again just to keep my boosts"
currently the boosts all stay for 20 seconds, so having that duration be able to be doubled or even made almost infinite (so long as you're staying in the action, and not going into a 'cop retreat' phase, which in this case, losing the boosts would make sense as you're "recuperating")

Again, just my thoughts don't @ me

3

29 Jun, '24
Raidey

Grit/Edge/Rush feel too limited in terms of what the buffs offer. Some of the hoops to jump through are too specific and having some skills consume them when you may not necessarily *want* to consume them so you avoid taking those actions... it all feels super clunky.

11

29 Jun, '24
spughatti Merged

who thought it was a good idea to force people to keep up temporary buffs or else you wont be able to use 90% of your skills? this is the worst skill system i have ever seen. a serious tragedy after payday 2 has already shown how to make a decent skill system. i just want skills that aren't dependent on busy work. i dont wanna have to reload my gun every 5 seconds just to keep the 'grit' buff which is literally keeping me alive because im using it with the skill that gives me armor regen if i have grit.

11

29 Jun, '24
bbibiibibibibi Merged

payday 2 didnt need edge grit micromanagement crap, so payday 3 doesnt need it either.

16

29 Jun, '24
samchameurry

Edge, Grit, Rush is one of those temporary buff systems... it has been attempted in many games before... the games that survived always ended up removing this kind of mechanic... entirely. You can't just lock all our skills behind having to constantly do chore tasks.... It's really silly whoever thought of that...

19

01 Jul, '24
Snaex Admin

"get rid of temporary buff grit edge rush" (suggested by <Hidden> on 2024-06-28), including upvotes (1) and comments (0), was merged into this suggestion.

1

01 Jul, '24
Snaex Admin

"[Feedback] WTF is Edge/Grit/Rush????" (suggested by <Hidden> on 2024-06-28), including upvotes (1) and comments (0), was merged into this suggestion.

01 Jul, '24
Snaex Admin

"Permanent skills/buffs" (suggested by <Hidden> on 2023-10-02), including upvotes (114) and comments (2), was merged into this suggestion.

01 Jul, '24
Snaex Admin

"[Feedback] Relax The Skills System" (suggested by <Hidden> on 2024-01-17), including upvotes (146) and comments (3), was merged into this suggestion.

03 Jul, '24
Anon.

Edge, Grit and Rush are not well designed. It leads to people doing silly things like purposely throwing and picking up bags, vaulting over a table in a safe area, or standing still and aiming at a wall for a few seconds to proc Rush. I get that it was *designed* to be used in gameplay, but it's exploitable in a really silly way and people take the path of last resistance. Instead, let's have passive buffs or buffs generated on kill.

32

08 Jul, '24
dawn

skills being interesting and having requirements to use effectively is a good thing, please don't listen to the loud minority who want the game to just be a head clicking simulator where you copypaste a build and forget about it

1

14 Jul, '24
FoxMulder80

Payday 2 Skill system combined with the perk decks was so satisfying and fun to play. PD3 Skill system has so much potential but I hate the idea of tying skills to grid, edge & rush. There is absolutely no replayability and everything feels pretty much the same except for 1 or 2 Skill. One reason why payday 2 was so good, ist beacause of the different variations of skills u can combine together.

18

15 Jul, '24
Artur

It is not necessary to "remove" them, the developers could simply expand their types and divide them into active and passive.

3

16 Jul, '24
buberry

If you throw a bag on the ground and pick it up again, you get rush - which makes you undetectable in private areas. Yeah bro that makes so much sense, let's keep it in the game and expand it! What a great mechanic.

No. Remove this hogwash. It completely takes away from the actual gameplay and obfuscates it for no reason. Any attempt at solving this system by expanding it, is only going to dig the hole deeper and ultimately make people hate it more.

14

16 Jul, '24
Pauly

thats not a bad idea Artur.. and then they will see that everyone only uses passive skills because edge/grit/rush is terrible and noone asked for it back in payday: the heist or payday 2 either.

14

17 Jul, '24
HordorHoarder

tbh wouldnt mind if tey just remove edge grit rush and kept te skills the same so theyre all passive now lol

9

20 Jul, '24
duschburg

The average person just wants to shoot and not have to juggle around weird temporary buffs by constantly reloading or dropping and picking up a bag, like what the hell? Who thought this was a good idea? Like, what does this system actually add to the game? A miniscule boost in endorphines whenever the buffs refresh? Might as well watch loading bars for satisfaction.

For the love of god... don't add something to a game, if it doesn't actually improve the gameplay.

Payday 2 got so many things right.
Instead of making these weird new systems, you should've kept it the same and improved it by adding more options.
Instead you dumbed it down and added ... whatever edge,grit,rush is supposed to be ....
Where's C4? Saw? etc.

14

28 Jul, '24
funkybird

ya, i really wanna like this game but this system keeps me from playing. i dont wanna have to keep doing weird arbitrary tasks just to be able to keep using my skills. it's so odd. giving people buffs for things like getting kills in rapid succession makes sense - because it's like a reward.. but giving you a buff for using basic things such as swapping your gun or reloading is ridiculous. these basic actions already have a point to them. you reload your gun... to reload it... you swap your gun.. to swap it.. so if you start adding buffs that require you to do these things, you start obfuscasting the gameplay with arbitrary filler actions. this ruins the entire gameplay loop. this is genuinely the least pleasant gameplay i have ever had to endure in any FPS shooter and it makes me very sad because i love payday

13

31 Jul, '24
Sophisto3

THINK ABOUT THIS LOGICALLY:

They could unironically make edge,grit,rush permanent effects and it would change NOTHING about the game's balance, due to how easy it is to upkeep all of those 100% of the time (by constantly reloading + dropping and picking up a bag over and over).

The one thing it would change, is that the gameplay would instantly become less annoying.

31

23 Aug, '24
Tzutzu

Please, remove this edge grit rush system as soon as possible, and put in some fun skills like payday 2 to be fun. All you guys had to do was to give us a payday 2 with good graphics and new content.

19

27 Aug, '24
mcmase1212

Skills have been getting more attention since the ammo funnel debacle, so I hope this discussion is taking place within SB.

I know it hurts as a dev team to trash something that has taken a lot of investment, but that's a "sunk cost" fallacy. Continuing to bet on a losing hand doesn't suddenly turn it into a winner, you only dig yourself into a bigger hole and make recovery less likely.

The devs need to reimagine the whole skill system from the ground up. Skills need to be part of trees so that we actually recapture heister archetypes instead of 4 identical copies of "generic armed robber".

G/E/R system is too much micro for this game. Imagine if Grit was an 80% damage reduction for 10s, but you could only use it once or twice per heist (based on an armor skill, idk) and that became the core of your role? Getting the crew across the open street for the final escape. There could be issues with this, but already sounds 10x more fun and impactful than how it is now.

13

18 Sep, '24
tamiku

i want pay day 3 to be more based on teamplay i dont want a dodge flame thrower like back...

but i dont like the fact i need to aim on nothing to have edge and loot grenade...

pay day 3 need more teamplay

18 Sep, '24
Name

I have thought the same. But rather than removing it, one can make the argument that reforming the Edge/Grid/Rush system could also be done: https://payday3.featureupvote.com/suggestions/567803/feedback-complete-skill-overhaul

20 Sep, '24
dmx276

I would like to see edge grit rush have dual purposes to work in stealth and loud edge offers 10% damage increase in loud and in stealth could offer 10% longer til your spotted slowed down your spotted meter! Grit 10% damage reduction In loud and civilians are automatically intimated an stay intimidated 10% longer in stealth Rush 10% movement speed in stealth and 10% increase of dodge in loud these are just suggestions but main point each buff should do more than one thing could lead to different builds example a edge stealth build or edge lout build an so on.

05 Oct, '24
SPYNINJA99

Maybe keep the edge grit and rush abilities but have it be their own separate thing that does not involve skills. Like a separate part of the load out. Make it so you have X amount of points to spend. Maybe some people want to have an edge and dump as many points into that as possible. Or maybe people want to reduce as much damage and go grit. Or become a speedy demon and increase the bonus of rush. Why does rush edge and edge only give 10% buffs? You can increase it with the new load out or make it last longer

11 Nov, '24
Rutobia

I think if EDGE+GRIT+RUSH can't be removed easily due to it making up a majority of the skill lines there can be some changes to help make it more appealing overall. I think extending the duration of the buffs to make them need to be activated less would help with some of the issues of needing to do arbitrary things to activate them such as running across the room to mantle something or etc. Pair that with making things that activate one of the buffs ALSO refresh it so you don't have to wait for the timer to burn down to activate the stat again.

Honestly I find myself more frustrated trying to keep my buffs active for my build than I do actually enjoying interestin skill line synergies, anytime I try to experiment I find myself forgetting certain skills I have active or just trying to go stupidly far out of my way to keep the stats active for my build to be fully out of the way. Like running around looking for a bench or random potted plant to mantle so I can refresh my GRIT or so on

2

12 Dec, '24
Samahël

I'm getting on my Edge, boi I feel guud with the moolah
Watch out for my Grit thoe, I fear you can't grasp it
For When I'm done we'll feel like a Rush

you see this is my testimoney about how I feel about this mechanix.
I like it, I like that you can play as the rushy touchy with a little bit of nerve enough
I wouldn't scrap it only in the sakes of old pd2 style.
Maybe add diversity ? Seem to be a wonderful way of expanding heisting genra.
Maybe add psyckopatie as a way to go down ? making some player pôtentially fight over hostages ? I dunno I'm spewwing

remove edge grit rush system and add more passive skill like pd2

Comments: 43